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blessed0203 I have a question
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Hey blessed I have noticed you and I are the most active on here and a lot of answers you give I agree on, but I have a question about something and also just wanted to know if you could give me some advice about something that happened today.
First I don't go to church I did when I was a teenager and bounced around between different churches and just never stayed at 1 and it has been a long time (years) since I had even gone until today. I have never been baptized in water, but I feel as if I have been baptized by the holy spirit from god because I feel as though he has made me a new creature as described in scripture. and everything I do I am led by the holy spirit now.
But i have felt as though I'd like to go to church and spend time being around other christians so I went to church this morning, but when I got there I was like 25mins early and something was going on where they give the service so I had to wait in the lobby, and more and more people started showing up to the point where you could hardly walked and I started noticing women that were dressed very sensual and it started to bother me. and the whole atmosphere got to the point where I was very uncomfortable so I left. and driving home I kept thinking of (2 Corinthians 6:14) "Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?"
It really bothers me that I have felt this way and has made me confused. Most people would think since I don't go to church that I have a problem, but when I went there I felt as if their church has a problem and god was not in it.
Also what do you think the importance is of public baptism in water, compared to baptism of the holy spirit from God?
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I am not Blessed0203, but I have an opinion on this. You said that: "Most people would think since I don't go to church that I have a problem." No offense, but maybe you do have a problem? For example, because some women were dressed "very sensual" you felt the need to call them unbelievers while quoting 2 Corinthians 6:14.
A Christian is someone that believes in Jesus as their Lord and Savior. Genuine Christians will prove it in their actions. It is true that some may dress with intentions of lust (which would be a sin) but some do not. Some simply like the style which is ok. Did you know that it's also a sin to incorrectly judge someone (Matthew 7:1; Romans14:10-14), and that is exactly what I think you are doing. The fact that you have not been to church in years points that maybe it's not the churches that have the problem after all but maybe it is you that needs to take a look at yourself, first (Matthew 7:3). So should I call you an unbeliever because of your incorrect judgment? Additionally, should I call you an unbeliever since you failed to capitalize the word "God" twice in your question? No. But do you see the error in your own logic?
So unless you knew 100% that these women's intentions were to have men "lust" after them (or for any other sinful reason), based off of how they were dressed, then you really have no basis for your claims.
Again, I am not saying this to offend you or anything but to, instead, help you. And I am a male, so do not think that I was offended by your comments.
You need to read your bible. First you told someone its ok to work in a liquor store and support sin, now you are saying not to judge people in our church. I just posted this on someones elses question.
If you bring charges of sin against one of your brothers in Christ the first thing he will do is say the bible says you should not judge me and that is an absolute lie. Satan wants for us to accept what is unclean and not let other people know that we love them, they would never see their faults and see that they need to come to god and be saved. If we didn't love them we would not point out their sin and let them stay on a path to destruction. people who don't believe in Christ though we are not to judge and accuse, we can present the truth to them, but god does his work in them.
1 Corinthians 5:13
I meant that you are not to associate with anyone who claims to be a believer yet indulges in sexual sin, or is greedy, or worships idols, or is abusive, or is a drunkard, or cheats people. Don't even eat with such people.
It isn't my responsibility to judge outsiders, but it certainly is your responsibility to judge those inside the church who are sinning. God will judge those on the outside; but as the Scriptures say, "You must remove the evil person from among you."
You need to pray to god to get saved, i mean seriously. you are spreading a bunch of lies on here about the gospel. Now you are also saying women dressing sensual is not sin give me a break read your bible. better yet study your bible. everything I have seen you post on here goes against the word of god
See, the difference between me and you is that I go by the Gospel, and the things I have written is not my own opinion. You are giving all these opinions. everything you have said here gets thrown out by scripture.
1 Timothy 2:9
also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes
How does this in anyway say its ok for women to show up at church with their breasts all hanging out looking like hookers, not dressing modest and looking indecent? They should not be dressed like that at any time not just church.
Matthew 18:7
"What sorrow awaits the world, because it tempts people to sin. Temptations are inevitable, but what sorrow awaits the person who does the tempting
If someone is not baptized with the holy spirit, walking in the spirit doing everything for the glory of god and letting the holy spirit lead them in everything they do, but claim to be Christian, they are lying because the bible says so. There is no way a woman can dress in such a sensual way and walk out of the house being led by the holy spirit, its impossible again, because the bible says so. its not my opinion
Another thing, first you pointed the finger at me saying not to judge your brother or sister.. You did not even know why we are supposed to be judging our brothers and sisters in Christ and keeping away from the ones who claim to be Christian but don't walk in the spirit. If you had studied your bible you'd know we are not to pass judgement on unbelievers. but we have every right to judge people that claim to be Christian,
Also there is no where in the bible that a big building with a lot of people singing and giving praise to god that most of them don't truely follow, is church. That's why I stopped going before. in the bible Church is fellowship in the word of god and I do that. there has yet to be a church that I have gone to that really preaches the gospel. Most of them they just stand up there read a couple lines from scripture and tell people how god can make their life better. and then start singing praises. You know the bible says "God does not want to hear hymns it is like noise to his ears, he wants to see people living righteous lives" Half of the people at church probably just can't wait until its over so they can go home and do things that are unholy. I know people that do.
Just from what you have been writing, I can tell you have a lot to learn. There is nothing I have done here that goes against scripture, because If I am walking in the spirit how can god lead me in the wrong way, all it takes is comparing your life with scripture to know if you have been born again or not. The bible says if you are in Christ we would have 1 heart. There is only 1 way to live and that is according to the word of god if everything you are posting is discredited according to scripture then you are not being led by the holy spirit, therefore you not in Christ whether you believe him to be Lord or not. That is what the bible says if you don't believe me I can post a page full of scriptures proving it.
Inchrist, you are not understanding or remembering what I wrote. This is what I typed in my very first response: "For example, because some women were dressed "very sensual" you felt the need to call them unbelievers while quoting 2 Corinthians 6:14." In other words, I'm not disagreeing that it's a sin to dress inappropriately, I'm saying (just like I said in my FIRST response) that you shouldn't assume that they are non-believers because of a sin unless you have PROOF that they even know that it's a sin to dress inappropriately! You'd be surprised that some people do not know this.
The fact that you have not gone to a Church in years suggests, to me, that you think you are better than others and sinless when we know that is not the case (Romans 3:23). I think you are probably misjudging some of them just like you misjudged me. I also think you are focusing way too much on the "law" instead of on "grace" (Romans 3:28). Good works (with faith) proves a genuine faith, very true. However, I doubt you even knew those people long enough to judge them correctly. Did you ask them why they were dressed "inappropriately"? Did you know that some people that wear those kinds of shirts do so because they get hot easily? Did you know old people, especially, do that for other personal reasons? My grandma who is like 80 wears those for obvious but personal reasons that have nothing to do with being sinful. So again, did you ask those women anything or did you just assume to know the reasons?
One final note, I never said don't judge someone that is sinning. Here is what I said in my FIRST reply: "Did you know that it's also a sin to incorrectly judge someone (Matthew 7:1; Romans14:10-14)." So I caution you to start judging people more CORRECTLY as we are told to do in Matthew 7:1 and Romans 14:10-14.
So here's something for thought. If these people were sinning so much, then why didn't you follow biblical commands and correct them instead of just leaving them be (Luke 17:3; James 4:17)? Don't you know we are supposed to correct our brothers and sisters? Better yet, why didn't you just ask them if they knew they were knowingly sinning instead of assuming things? You sinned by not doing what you were supposed to do (Luke 17:3; James 4:17).
So if you are not willing to see the error in your ways (incorrect judging & not correcting them of their possible sin), then by your own (failed) logic, you yourself are not a Christian.
Hello inchrist, it's good to hear from you. Yes, I agree, I also find that you and I are on the same page about alot of things. First things first, I am honored that you would ask me a question directly, so thank you.
Okay, regarding baptism, water baptism and baptism in the Holy Spirit are two different things. You apparently are familiar with the baptism of the Holy Spirit which consists of spiritual gifts.
The water baptism goes along with getting saved. The water baptism is the death of the old self and the welcoming of the new creation in you. When you are being submerged into the water, it's a symbolism of your old self being buried, when you are submereged, that is the burial of the old, when you resurface, that is the creation of the new self coming to life.
You are now a completed new creation in Christ. It's like the seal that completes your stature as a Christian. If you write a letter, put it in an envelope, and adress it, the letter can still be delivered without a stamp. But if you adress it and put a stamp on it, the letter will be considered, will look, and feel like a true letter if it has a stamp on it.
Repenting, asking Jesus to be your Lord and Savior, and living your life as a Christian will be enough to get you saved and into eternity with God, but when you are water baptised, I feel it not only completes you as a desciple of Jesus, but your spirit will feel complete and you will most assurely feel closer to God, more than before. In my opinion, although water baptism is not required to get saved, but it's almost like having the seal of the Lord upon you. You know what I mean?
Romans 6:4
We were buried therefore with him through baptism to death, that just like Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we also might walk in newness of life.
Acts 2:38
"Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."
Matthew 28:19
"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."
In the bible, Jesus did not begin His ministry until John had babptized in with water which is when the spirit of God came down like a dove upon Him. So when you think about it, water baptism and repentance both go hand in hand. In my opinion, when you have been baptized with water, it opens the spiritual door for many more wonderful blessings from God.
As far as feeling wierd at church. I think what you were feeling is one of two things, discernment, where you knew in your heart that some of those people seemed lukewarm to you, or the fact that since you hadn't gone to church for a length of time, you felt out of place. It could be many things. Did you feel apprehensive about going to church? If so, the enemy can build on those feelings causing you to feel uncomfortable and make you want to quit.
If you most definately wanted to go, then like I said, it could have been your spirit discerning and realizing that some of those people were what I call, only Sunday Christians.
Many times God let's us feel things and reveals things to us, not to point a finger, but to make us aware of how the world, both christans and non-christians are behaving.
I would be the first to say, am I am sure you will agree that many times when I know something is wrong and I mention it, people automatically say that I am being judgemental, but that isn't the case. It does tend to hurt when the things that God reveals to only a few is not the same thing that the majority sees and feels, thus making us look like the bad guy. But that's where Matthew 25:31-34 comes in,
" 31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory.
32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34 "Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world."
But as I always say, give it another go at going to church. Ask God that if that is where He wants you, to please confirm it and reveal it to you, if not, then for Him to lead you to a church were you will not only be fed, and grow, but will feel at peace among your brother's and sister's in christ. Good luck. God bless.
Okay MVP, it could well be that the people or the person inchrist saw as being dressed sensually was a new convert, and I feel that depending on that persons relationship with God, He will deal with them. Chruch is God's house, and it should be respected. Sleeping, chatting, chewing gum, and looking constantly at your watch during service is very inapropriate.
A person would not go to a job interview in jeans, shorts, mini skirt, t-shirt, or halter top if they wanted to make a good impression. So if we go out of our way to make a good impression with an employer, why won't we want to make a good impression with God when He is above all that?
If a woman wants to wear a tank top, that's fine, but a tank top that is two sizes too small or has her girls seeping out of them is just asking for trouble. I'm sure the person doesn't do it intentionally, but the devil does.
Let's say a woman goes to church in a tight skirt, and a dressy tank top blouse with a revealing cleavage (sorry if I misspelled it), anyway, she goes to church and her dressing was just a normal thing for her, but when she gets to church, a fellow brother in christ becomes entanced by the enemy because of her dressing, now the spirit of lust comes in and if the man is married, with his thoughts, he begins to comit adultery.
We have to be careful with the way we dress and act in church, we have to be aware of our actions because as the word says, the devil goes around like a lion seeing who to devour. And if there is a brother who is not firm in the Lord, that could very well be the ingredient the enemy will use to begin his downfall. Yes, it's not the fault of the woman, but we have to be aware of our surroundings and our intentions.
If they get hot, they can wear a sleeveless blouse, but be aware of how much it reveals. Chruch is not the place to show off your sexy outfits, it's the house of God where we must come into it with a humble heart, not a competion of styles or dresses, that's a matter of pride.
So don't be too harsh on inchrist, I know exactly what inchrist is referring to, and exactly what the problem is when we go to church to impress eachother rather than seeking God.
Blessed, I actually have always agreed with you and inchrist about dressing inappropriately being a sin. However, the problem is that inchirst was assuming that he knew their intentions. He was also assuming that they were unbelievers based off of one sin without judging having all of the evidence. And your statement is also dangerous: "the problem is when we go to church to impress eachother rather than seeking God." How would we know what their intentions were unless we asked them? Some things can be common sense, but dressing is not always so. For all we know, they could have dressed that way because they did not know it was a sin. Is it still a sin to dress inappropriately? Yes. But if they did not do it intentionally then it is unfair of inchrist to call them unbelievers.
I also pointed out that if they were such sinners, then why not follow biblical commands and correct them like we're supposed to do (Luke 17:3; James 4:17)? He just committed a sin himself! All I'm saying is that do not be so quick to judge someone when you don't even have all of the evidence. That is judging incorrectly which is not biblical.
But I apologize to inchrist if it seems like I'm being harsh on him. My intentions are to make him aware of his own sin.
But Blessed you of all people should be aware of what I'm trying to do for inchrist. Or are you already forgetting about what he originally said about your answer on the sabbath? That's the same, dangerous, kind of attitude I am sensing from him that I want to help him with.
MVP, you last comment made me chuckle, but seriously though, remember I said in my comment that those people most likely do not do it intentionally, but the enemy will use it to his advantage. And yes, you are right, many people are so used to dressing a certain way that they don't do it intentionally.
I was giving a few possible examples, but in all honesty MVP, you know that there does exist some people who do dress to impress. I'm not saying it's everyone, not at all, but there is atleast a small fraction. However, we do have to be aware of how we present ourselves as christians.
No, not to judge, but we have to be humble, not naive. You know what I mean? So please don't think that I am judging as to how people dress or don't dress, what I am saying is that, like I said before, the enemy is an oportunist and he will use anything and everything he can to make us fall, even the outfit of a good looking person.
If you saw a girl in the street with short shorts and half her butt was exposed, and someone told you she was a christian, wouldn't it raise your eyebrow?
We must conduct ourselves accordingly so when people hear we are a christian it will confirm their suspisions and not surprise them.
One thing I just wanted to clear up about you saying I don't know what their intentions were. According to the bible, after receiving the holy spirit, we walk in the spirit and do everything for the glory of god. people dressing in a sensual way is not walking in the spirit whether at church or not, so someones intentions should only be to walk as Jesus would in all that they do. Does that mean they wont be saved? no absolutely not, they might just be ignorant of what they are doing and i'm sure they do believe in Jesus since they are at church. but as someone who does walk in the spirit, that is not something I want to be around, im not a member of that church so I have no right to say something about it, I will find another. It was a tough situation for me though, because it would have been different if the whole church had been open and not just the front lobby if I could have sat down in the church and read the bible or something until the service start it would have been different.
inchrist, are you refering to something I said or MVP. I did agree with the fact that when we go to church, we have to try to be a bit more conservative in our attire.
Also, at the church you went to, were they having a service or were they participating in Sunday school? I don't see why you had to sit in the lobby. At my church, they hold Sunday school in the sactuary, but if you're late, you are still welcome to attend, you don't have to wait in the lobby.
Maybe that specific church wasn't for you. You can try your own denomination or try a non-denomination and see how that works out for you.
Although the attire that some people wear may be distracting at times, my advise is to focus on the word being preached and try not to focus on the surroundings. Remember it's not about the people, it's about God. We go to church to hear the word of God, yes we also go to fellowship and encourage eachother, but it's not necessary to fellowship with everyone. You may find one or two people that you may want to know better.
But most definately keep an open mind. If someone is doing something purposely wrong, the Lord is aware of it and He will deal with it accordingly, but don't let this one experience ruin it for you in finding a place where you can feel comfortable while spending time with God and hearing His word.
I was talking about what MVP said regarding what he said about, it might not be sin because it depends on their intentions. but my belief is if someone has received the holy spirit it would be made very clear to them
To both Inchrist and Blessed: we now seem to be on the same page.
Blessed: I agree, there are plenty of people that I know that "dress to impress." However, for the ones that I am 100% sure of, I "know" that they do it because I have judged them correctly based off of the fact that I personally know them. On the other hand, I will not assume to know a stranger unless I've gathered all of the evidence. Again, we agree on that but I was just restating it.
Inchrist: Once again I am sorry if I came off as harsh. We seem to now agree on them possibly being ignorant of their sins -- which is actually common for a lot of Christians. I also agree that the holy spirit will make it known, somehow, if they are originally ignorant to the sin. The problem is not all always listen even if they hear it.
And I also agree that even if their intentions are pure, a sin still equals a sin..which brings me to my next point:
About your comment: "im not a member of that church so I have no right to say something about it." That is false. God gave you the right to correct them (Luke 17:3; James 4:17), but you did not do it for secular reasons "not being a member of that church." So even though your intentions were pure, that in itself was a sin because God didn't limit His rules to a certain church or denomination for we are all one church under God.
I'm not saying I'm perfect either, though. There have been many times I wanted to correct a Christian but I felt like I would hurt their feelings (or for some other secular reason), so I myself sinned every time I did that -- even though my intentions were pure. So please don't think I'm personally attacking you or anything.
Also, seeing as how this question was originally intended for Blessed0203, I will request the mods to delete my responses after you have gotten a chance to read this response. Again, I apologize if I came off as rude -- I only wanted to help.
MVP, I don't feel there was any harm done. I believe this is why the forum is here, so we can voice our opinions and possibly give advice. Each of us views the comments with an open mind and then comment from there, but yes, we do have to be careful and use tact when disagreeing or responding to an advice or a question.
As brothers and sisters in Christ, we live in the world, but we are not part of this world, which means that we have to speak to eachother in love, not as the world does.
Once we each voiced our opinions, eventually in the end we ended up agreeing with the discussion at hand. So I don't think it should be removed because I learned from it, and I am sure someone else can learn from it as well.
MVP, one more thing, there is a thin line between correcting a christian who is unknowingly commiting a sin and judging. Many people feel that if a person is doing something wrong and we mention it, we are said to be judging the person, but as watchmen on the wall, it is our duty, like you said, as christians to help point that person in the right direction if they do not realize they are sinning.
If we see a christian commiting a sin and say or do nothing to help that person stop the sin and the person ends up lost, then we are accountable because we knew better and did not help the person see the errors of their ways. Yes, when we see something being done incorrectly, we certainly must pray about our intentions of disclosure and if, as well as how, we are to handle the situation without causing the christian to feel inferior, low, or bad.
We correct our fellow brothers and sisters so they may walk in the spirit and grow as christians while giving God the glory. I feel that if a person is doing something against the Lord and he/she is spoken to in love regarding their actions, and this person becomes offended and says we are judging, then I personally feel that they are trying to jusify their actions instead of accepting the advice as a loving concern regarding their relationship with Christ. So it's very hard to speak without looking like the bad guy. What do you think?
"I personally feel that they are trying to jusify their actions instead of accepting the advice as a loving concern regarding their relationship with Christ. So it's very hard to speak without looking like the bad guy. What do you think?"
Hi Blessed, I thank you for your response, and I also agree with it. When I'm involved in these types of situations I do usually feel like the bad guy because they may try and justify their actions, and I also know that I'm not perfect either. But like you said, it's a Christian's duty to respectfully correct another if they sin. And if I sin, I also expect to be corrected, no matter how much I might not like it. However, for both examples, we must always judge carefully and correctly.
Most definately, I agree 100%. We must constantly ask God for His wisdom, knowledge, and understanding when it comes to situations such as these.
We must also ask for His grace when we present these things to the person with whom we speak to so they will accept it as a learning experience and not as a self-righteous comment on our part. Have a blessed day MVP.