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Calvinsm
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I heard someone talking about a Calvinist viewpoint and they quoted Romans 9 13 to prove God hates some and is in favor of others, and that everything is predetermined. Also that John 3 16 is only referring to those who are chosen. Things like this discouraged me as they probably do to most. What is the meaning of all this?
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Calvinists are people who think they have figured out the mind of God.
The Bible is clear. God chooses but at the same time He has given us a choice. How does that work? I'm not God. Christ chose 12 disciples. Didn't one betray Him?
It's always important that you read in context what people are quoting at you.
If you'd like to discuss this more, just let me know. I'd love to help as much as I can. I'll simply say this, to end this comment. We cannot comprehend the mind of God. We cannot say "this is how God thinks" and that's it. We're not God. Anyone who makes any statement that isn't clear in the Bible and vows that it's true is uttering dangerous words and he/she will be judges for it.
Calvinism?? That's a new one on me. I've never heard that name ever mentioned. I don't think there is any such thing. Romans 9:13 says that Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. God hates sin. He does not hate people. I think what God was trying to say is that he was pleased with Jacob and not pleased with Esau. If you read Romans 8: 28 and 29; verse 29 states" For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren".
Predestination just means that God knows everything ahead of time. Remember that for those of us who are filled with the Holy Spirit, our names were written in the Lambs book of life before the foundation of the world.
In St.John 3:16, it states, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life". This scripture is for every single person in the whole world. It doesn't say that it is for "God's chosen".
I hope this answers your questions!!
John 3:16 " For God so loved the "world" that He gave His only begotten Son, that "who so ever" believed in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:17 "For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him."
The key word here is again...world.
World means, the entire world...everybody.
Who so ever, means anybody.
This verse clearly states that God is for who ever will listen.
Romans 10:13 "for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."
Again the word whoever which means everybody.
In regards to Romans 9:13..It is not that God hated Esau with a harsh, vindictive animosity, but only that He loved Esau less than Jacob, as seen by His authorative selection over Jacob. This ofcourse is referring to earthly blessings, and not to eternal life.
Exodus 33:19 "The LORD replied, "I will make all my goodness pass before you, and I will call out my name, Yahweh, before you. For I will show mercy to anyone I choose, and I will show compassion to anyone I choose."
God is God and His reasons for doing things always end up for Good.
I agree with the post before this, do not take things that people quote to you at face value, you have to read the before and after, you also have to study the verse and figure out what exactly is meant by the verse in question.
God has His reasons for doing things and chosing people. He is the only one who knows the outcome of all things. Maybe the person He choses is a warrior and the job will get done, and perhaps the one that was passed by wasn't completely behaving in the will of God. Only God knows best.
The responders here have not given a very fair assessment of Calvinism. It is clear that they disagree with the doctrine and have seen to explain it away without explaining it.
There have been vestiges of Calvinist doctrine in pre-Reformation church history (Augustine for example) however it surged at the time of the Reformation. Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, and all of the reformers held to this doctrine (excepting Luther in a few points).
The doctrine is essentially soteriological in that it seeks to explain the doctrine of salvation. Nevertheless, it has consequences on how one views all of the truths of God.
Generally
The doctrine claims strict adherence to the "Five Solas" of the Reformation.
Salvation comes:
Sola Gratia - By grace alone
Sola Fide - Through faith alone
Sola Christus - In Christ alone
Sola Scriptura - As revealed in Scripture alone
Soli Deo Gloria - All to the glory of God alone.
Specifically
The doctrine can be summed up in the acronym TULIP.
Total Depravity
This means man is spiritually dead because of the Fall. He is blind and deaf to the things of God and is therefore unable to choose spiritual good.
Scripture:
Romans 5:12, Ephesians 2:1-3, Romans 3:10-12, Romans 8:7-8, 1 Corinthians 2:14
Unconditional Election:
Seeing the state of mankind and their inability to achieve salvation of their own works, God sought to glorify Himself by creating a plan for salvation.
Out of His own good pleasure, He chose some of His creatures to be saved. These are called the Elect. His choosing of certain creatures for salvation was not based on any foreseen works (including faith) but rather on His good and sovereign will.
It is important to remember that there is nothing special about the Elect. They are receiving of God's blessing of salvation solely apart from anything within themselves lest they be able to boast.
It is also important to remember that God is not unjust for leaving the rest of mankind in their sin. They are not innocent people deserving heaven. All men everywhere are guilty people deserving hell and God, out of His grace, to glorify Himself, chose to save some.
This allows God to be glorified through His justice and His mercy.
Scripture:
Matthew 24:22-24, Matthew 24:31, John 6:37-39, John 6:65, John 17:9, Romans 8:28-33, Romans 11:5, Ephesians 1:4-5, Ephesians 1:11, 1 Thessalonians 5:9, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, 1 Peter 1:1-2, Romans 9:11-13, 2 Timothy 1:9, Acts 13:48
Limited Atonement
God having created a plan to save His elect implemented it at the cross. The doctrine of the limited atonement does not mean that it was limited in its ability to save. Just the contrary: it is the only doctrine that upholds the power of the cross to save! The purpose of the cross was to save from sin and hell. Christ died on the cross only for the Elect and not for the whole world.
Reformed pastor, John Owen put it this way:
There are three possibilities for the function of the cross.
1. Jesus died for all of the sins of all men.
This means that all would be forgiven their sin and be in heaven. This is universallism and unBiblical.
2. Jesus died for some of the sins of all men.
This means that no one is actually saved by the cross and men remain in their sin. This is also unBiblical.
3. Jesus died for all of the sins of some men.
This means that the cross actually saves and fulfills the purpose God had intended for it. This is the Biblical view of the cross.
Ultimately, the limited atonement (the most controversial doctrine of Reformation theology) means that God has determined that all for whom Christ sacrificed Himself will be saved.
Scripture:
John 6:35-40, John 10:11, John 10:24-29, John 10:26, John 17:24, Hebrews 2:17, Hebrews 9:28, Acts 20:28, Matthew 20:28, Matthew 26:28
Irresistible Grace
God having seen the state of man, created a plan of salvation, enacted the foundation of salvation at the cross, now He must deal with the depravity of man.
If you remember, man is totally depraved and unable to choose spiritual good. Romans 3:11 says, "no one understands; no one seeks for God."
How then man choose to put their faith in Christ if every faculty of their existence is depraved because of their sin? Something must happen within them to make them desire that which previously was undesirable?
This is accomplished through God's irresistible grace. The Holy Spirit graciously regenerates every one of God's chosen people, creating within them a new heart and enabling them to freely and willingly believe in Christ as Savior and Lord. The new birth precedes and makes possible saving faith. life gives faith.
The heart of the person is changed and their eyes are opened to see Christ for who He is. They are made aware of their sin and the wrath of God against it and convicted by the Holy Spirit. Christ, as the solution to their sin, is seen as irresistible. Seeing Christ as irresistible, they freely choose to put their faith in Him.
Scripture:
John 1:12-13, Romans 9:16, John 3:3-8, Titus 3:5, Deuteronomy 30:6, Ezekiel 36:26-27, 2 Corinthians 5:17-18, Galatians 6:15, John 5:21, Ephesians 2:1, Ephesians 2:5, Colossians 2:13, John 17:2 (He = Jesus), Ephesians 2:8-9, Acts 5:31, Acts 11:18, Acts 16:14, Acts 16:14, Philippians 1:29, 2 Timothy 2:25
Perseverance of the Saints
God having seen the state of man, elected those creatures whom He desired to save, provided a sacrifice on behalf of their sin on the cross, convicted them and converted them by His grace and the Holy Spirit, and now He will keep them until the end.
All who are chosen by God, redeemed by Christ, and regenerated by the Holy Spirit are eternally saved. They are kept in faith by the power of Almighty God and therefore continue to persevere in faith.
Scripture:
John 10:27-29, John 17:11-12, Romans 8:29-30, Romans 8:35-39, 1 Corinthians 1:8, Ephesians 1:13-14, Philippians 1:6, 1 Peter 1:3-5, 1 John 2:25
So, Calvinism is a doctrine much more detailed and in-depth than you have characterized it. It is the historic faith of the Reformation and, I believe, the truth of Holy Scripture.
It would benefit you to look further into these doctrines for your own edification.
Hope this helps!
Calvinist vs. Weslian, predestined vs free will. sanvtified or filled with the spirit. These are theological debates that men have with each other. Paul writes about the seperation of the church in corinthians when he talks about the congregation fighting amongst themselves over which group is right. And Paul also say that in the end it does not matter. What does matter is that You believe in the Lord, Jesus Christ as your Lord and savior and that he gave his life on the cross to pay for your sins. You also have to place him lord over your life and submit to his will. With that in mind, does it truely matter if your predestined or have free will as long as you believe these things. I say no.