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Is it possible that the information in the book of Enoch is accurate and is acceptable for us to believe in the Lord's sight?
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Wondering if it is acceptable in the Lord's sight to believe information that is presented in the book of Enoch which is a non-biblical book.
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That is very dangerous ground, my friend. Yes, some of it may make sense. But there are a few verses that cause major problems:
Enoch 40:9- "...seen and whose words I have heard and written down?’ And he said to me: ‘This first is Michael, the merciful and long-suffering: and the second, who is set over all the diseases and all the wounds of the children of men, is Raphael: and the third, who is set over all the powers, is Gabriel: and the fourth, who is set over the repentance unto hope of those who inherit eternal life, is named Phanuel."
Now look at John 14:6 and John 17:3. Jesus is the only way to salvation. And yet "Enoch" (the writer of Enoch is uncertain) mentions an "angel" who is for that purpose. Why on earth did Jesus have to die then? The whole New Testament was just undermined!
Jesus' wounds healed us (Isaiah 53:5-6). The flogging and nails were done by human hands- not an angel (Raphael missed an appointment).
Enoch 48:1-3 "1 And in that place I saw the fountain of righteousness Which was inexhaustible: And around it were many fountains of wisdom: And all the thirsty drank of them, And were filled with wisdom, And their dwellings were with the righteous and holy and elect. 2 And at that hour that Son of Man was named In the presence of the Lord of Spirits, And his name before the Head of Days. 3 Yea, before the sun and the signs were created, Before the stars of the heaven were made, His name was named before the Lord of Spirits."
Revelation 1:8. John 1:1-5; 10-14. Jesus is eternal. But he was named? Things with a new life are named. God, who has no beginning and no end, was not named "God" one day. Why would Jesus, who is also eternal, suddenly be named? Head of Days is not found in the Bible. And besides, if the Word was with God, and was God, how can He be in God's presence to be named? "God was in God's presence...to name himself" It doesn't make sense. John and Enoch don't mesh.
Enoch 69:8-9a- "And the fourth was named Penemue: he taught the 9 children of men the bitter and the sweet, and he taught them all the secrets of their wisdom...
So much for Eve biting that fruit, eh? "Penemue" was the one who taught us "the bitter and the sweet...all the secrets of their wisdom."
Look up Genesis 2:16-17 and Genesis 3:4-11. Wisdom and the knowledge of good and evil came about when Eve and Adam ate the forbidden fruit. There was no teacher there. Only a serpent, fruit and a bite. I spy a contradiction...
Enoch 69:9b-10 "And he instructed mankind in writing with ink and paper, and thereby many sinned from eternity to 10 eternity and until this day. For men were not created for such a purpose, to give confirmation 11 to their good faith with pen and ink..
Writing is a sin? Then pray tell, why is the Bible not in verbal format? Why would the holy Word of God be written down? It is interesting how Jesus (in John 8:6) would write and still be blameless.
Enoch 69:11-12 "11 to their good faith with pen and ink. For men were created exactly like the angels, to the intent that they should continue pure and righteous, and death, which destroys everything, could not have taken hold of them, but through this their knowledge they are perishing, and through this power
12 it is consuming me.
Mankind was created like angels? According to Genesis 1: 25-28, man was created in God's image. God and angels are more then a bit different. One more point: Angels do not have free will, but we, man, do. Besides, the intent of our creation was for His pleasure (Colossians 1:16). Eternal life and pureness are part of it, but not the reason.
If the book was supposed to be in the Bible, God would have seen to it that the manuscript made it in. If the book of Enoch is the inspired word of God, it would not contain errors.
Besides, Enoch is non-canonical; unless you happen to go the Ethiopian Orthodox Church.
Galatians 1:7-9. The end.
Enoch 40 details the division of responsibilities among the archangels. It says nothing about there being another way of salvation. In the passage the term "set over" simply means "ministers to". To further the problem, the syntax of the sentence in our English translation is a bit stilted as well. To paraphrase the sentence it might read something like, "who ministers to those who are appointed to repentance leading to inherit eternal life".
You should have taken a queue from the phrase in the sentence that reads "who inherit eternal life". To inherit eternal life means it is something that is not the work of man. There is now and there has always been one way of salvation, it is inherited by reason of the grace of God.
In your view does Hebrews 1:14, tell us there is another path to salvation too? It is very similar in tone to the verse in Enoch with which you have a problem. In speaking of the angels it says, "are they not all ministering spirits sent out to serve for the sake of those who are to inherit salvation?"
Thank you so much for taking the time to answer my question. I really appreciate your insight. This is something that I have not been able to take my mind off of day and night. I have been searching for an answer as to whether or not to believe what is in this book. I do have a disagreement with one thing that you pointed out though. How could Satan and the fallen angels disobey God if they did not have free will? I have read the book of Enoch and have read hundreds of opinions on the book from both ends of the spectrum. From those who believe that it was hidden purposely by the fallen angels just so we "mankind" could not find secrets as to what they may be attempting to do in the future that will lead up to the coming of the antichrist. I have also read the people who believe that is complete heresy. I personally as of right now based on the information in which I have learned about this subject up until this point in time, believe that there is some truth to the book. But I also believe that it has several inconsistences as you pointed out which obviously means it cannot be fully inspired word of God. But what if the original version of the book of Enoch has been tampered with somewhere along the line? Perhaps if someone were to change some of the meanings in the book they may just make Christians think that the entire story is false? I am just trying to keep my mind open so I know how best to defend myself in this spiritual battle that we are all a part of. Lets face it we have Dinosaur bones, Nephilim bones, and video of UFO's. This one book could explain all three of these topics that non-beleivers use against the Bible each and every day. This book could help support the Bible if you just take it for the story that it is trying to get across. I know that there are tons of inconsistencies with the Bible but the Devil also knows that we "Christians" will not accept a book that is inconsistent with the Bible as inspired word of God, so perhaps he changed bits and pieces of the book to create inconsistencies for that very reason. Can I please get some of your thoughts on these matters? Keep in mind I am completely undecided as to whether or not I believe that anything in the book of Enoch is true up until this point in time. Thanks so much and God Bless!!!
If Enoch was tampered with long ago, we can not be certain of any portion within it. Now, if Enoch is one of the missing books of Scripture, then it might injure more then help. The book is surrounded by strange circumstances and controversy. Since you have read so much about it, you will know that it does carry a shining not reputation.
If Enoch is the inspired word of God, it can not tampered with either by Satan or man. If it was, the rest of the Bible would come into question. One of the keys of the church would break. If the perfection of the Bible is questioned, people can easily come up with their own occultish philosophies which would split and cripple the church. The fall of the church was prove Jesus statement that the church shall prevail false. And thus, a chain reaction (of unhelpful results) of events would follow.
If Enoch is the inspired word of God, it would be flawless. And yet, as presented above, it has serious doctrinal issues. God is a perfect being incapable of authoring an imperfect document; even through human authors. They can be now "half divinely inspired" manuscripts. If so, then the accusations of the Bible being fairy tales would be partial true. You might as well write your attachment to the Bible, is such "half-breed" documents (that isn't a literal suggestion). Truthfulness and righteousness are undeniable characteristics of God. Enoch possesses inconsistances. If it is the inspired word of God, then the book would make God a lier due to those very inconsistances (to be blatant: errors).
My theory on dinosaurs: Like any other creature, God created dinosaurs within the six, twenty-four hour days. Then of course came the fall and conditions went from perfect to wounded. But pre-flood conditions were still tropical to a great extent. Noah built his ark and took dinosaurs aboard- as young individuals or even eggs. The flood was a massive event and sudden death- which explains fossil graveyards and the many incomplete skeletal remains. The flood caused drastic climate changes and thus, when the arc landed, it was no longer a dinosaur's favorite habitat. The size of and special requirements loaned to dinosaur extinction. On top of it, people slue and hunted the surviving dinosaurs- maybe even bringing them to extinction (hence, the worldwide legends of dragons and dragon slaying). Job, the oldest book in the Bible, has references to large, unknown creatures. Descriptions of which fit certian dinosaur types.
The Nephilim fit right in. There were giant Cheetahs, giant dinosaurs, king size insects and other creatures, so why not giant humans? The gene pool was not as narrow, conditions not as aged as of present. The angelic heritage is what I question. Why does the Bible never directly mention interbreeding? Lucifer and associates are never recorded as doing such (and that is the only recorded rebellion of angels in heaven). And why has it not happened more then once in history?
UFOs on videos are one thing. Solid, physical evidence is another. SETI has nothing impressive to report, and earth is the only life supporting planet we know off. UFO's hoaxes are plentiful and will most likely continue. The Bible states that Satan can masquerade as an angel of light, so I imagine UFO's are not much or a challenge.
God omnipotent and omnipresent. He is the Alpha and Omega. If Enoch did have dire information that is essential to the well being of the Christian (such pre-Antichrist events), God, with his awesome power, would make sure we received it. According to 1 John 4, the spirit of the Antichrist is already in the world. The victory is already won (Col 2:15) and since it is already secure, a fallen angel conspiracy which involves kidnapping part of the Bible could not and would not succeeded for thousands of years. God guides every process the Scripture takes. There is no secret information. The books He wants us to know, the information He wishes us to realize are in there.
"Enoch" will not disturb my God given peace. :)
Once again I appreciate your divinely inpired comment. It seems that you have alot of these so called "problems" figured out. I have a couple of other questions that I am looking for answers to. If the Nephilim died out immediately after the flood assuming they were on the ark with Noah then what and who are the descendants of Anak that are spoken of in the Bible when the Isrealites sent out the spies to the view the promised land? Also, where in the Bible is the story of Satan and 1/3 of the angels falling out of the sky? I ask these questions to gain understanding, not for the sake of disagreement. Thank you so much for your previous comments and I will look forward to continuing this conversation in the future. God bless!
Feel free to ask questions. I don't mind it at all. :)
According to Genesis 6:17-19 Noah and his relatives (along with animals) were the only ones on the Arc. So unless, Noah has Nephilim blood, no Nepilims survived.
All the diversity we see in the human race today came from Noah's family. Their genes were diverse and potentially millions of possibilities. Size is one of those possibilities. Since there were giants before the flood, there was genetic material for those giants. The races may have gone extinct, but that does not the genes for great size disappeared with them. As more generations were born and genes became more isolated along the lines, a tall family or even race could have come into existence consistently (along with the other races we see today). Such a race would be well known and feared (the height!) which would be why Anak was familiar to Israel. Even today, the exceptional tall man turns up (10 Tallest Men in the World). They don't likely have an angelic heritage.
Isaiah 14:12-15 describes Lucifer's actions of attempting to conquer God and heaven: and his failure. Revelation 12:7-9 speaks of a battle in heaven- with God's forces upholding victory.
Do you have any answers for the question about Satan and 1/3 of the Angels falling? Where is that in the Bible? Or does the whole story come straight out of the book of Enoch?
As I pointed out in the last paragraph of my previous answer, Isaiah 14:12-15 describes Satan's (called the mourning star) desire to conquer and rule heaven, and his falling defeat.
Revelation 12:4, 7-9 describes the battle fought between Satan's forces and those of God. Satan, the dragon, was defeated and cast down along with his allied angels. 12:4 talks about the third.
In Luke 10:18, Jesus states he saw Satan fall from the sky.
Enoch, thank the Lord is not the only book to mention this event.
Interesting, I haven't quite made it to the book of Isaiah yet. I read all of the New Testament and then I started in Genesis and I am currently in Psalms. It is very neat how it all fits together so perfectly! I have dismissed the possibility of the book of Enoch being complete fact. I do think there is something behind the book's existence that seems very odd to me though. Thank you for all of your replys!
Glad to help. :)
Over the past 2,000-years, the Ethiopic texts from which the Book of Enoch derives followed a transmission path something like this:
Aramaic > Greek > Geez > English
The text of Enoch which was the basis for the quote from it in the New Testament Epistle of Jude, followed a transmission path something like this:
Aramaic > Greek > English
How careful were the Ethiopian translators and copyists with the text of Enoch over the centuries? You be the judge. The following are both examples:
Enoch 1:9 (Charles):
Behold! He cometh with ten thousands of His holy ones, to execute judgment upon all, and to destroy all the ungodly: and to convict all flesh of all the works of their ungodliness which they have ungodly committed, and of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.
Jude 1:14-15 (ESV):
Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of His saints, to execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
Two different transmission routes which diverged more than 1,500-years ago and yet the resultant translations into English of the shared quote from the two books are remarkably close to one another. That's the sort of variation we see with the texts of the books of the Bible; the Ethiopic texts which we have today merit a high degree of trustworthiness.
Since Charles' day, a truly ancient copy of the text of Enoch 1:9 was found in Aramaic in the Dead Sea Scrolls. The parchment upon which this verse survives has been dated to the 3rd century B.C. and is virtually more ancient than most other surviving texts of the books of the Bible.
These facts which have come to the fore over the past 50 or so years, debunk the old theory put forth by some scholars in an earlier era, that the entire Ethiopic Book of Enoch was a forgery written to provide a background for the one verse in Jude. Amazingly, some sites on the internet, still perpetuate this disproven view.
Current Misinformation
Many of the old ideas that place doubt in the trustworthiness of Ethiopic Enoch, continue to have an extended life on internet discussion boards. For instance, one person posted the following,
"Jude actually did quote out of the Book of Enoch in his epistle. It's also interesting that all of the copies that have been found disagree with the Jude quote. A number of somewhat different versions have been found including some with the Dead Sea Scrolls. The versions are different from one another and no one can agree which one is the original inspired word."
The quote above is not an accurate portrayal of the facts. The only complete copies of the Book of Enoch, (also known as 1 Enoch, and Ethiopic Enoch), are in "Geez" a semitic, Ethiopic language. The versions of the Ethiopic texts which we have are not widely different from each other. The process by which R.H. Charles arrived at a text for translation purposes did not differ significantly from the process which is used for other texts of the Bible.
Nevertheless, one continues to read online the concerns of posters that the “versions” of Enoch that are out there are very different from one another. I have tried repeatedly to discover why this myth is so persistent. Usually I find people are simply repeating what someone else has related to them.
Hello. I have been researching this subject somewhat, and have some thoughts to add. First, I think the dating of this text combined with the fact that it does give a great detail about the Son of Man and the day of the Lord should give some credit to it at least having some truth to it. That being said I do believe there are reasons our Lord would guide it away from the final canon of scripture.
For one thing I do not believe God wants to give new believers too much information on the angels, because as we can see in Revelation and elsewhere, people have a tendency to fixate on them and even want to worship them. This gives Satan, as an angel himself, an opportunity to lead people down a road toward mysticism and even the occult. In the bible, just enough information is ever provided about the angels. We don't see long passages with them interacting with one another or going about on their own in heavenly places, just generally either in the presence of the Lord or carrying out some task He has given them.
I do believe, however, that Jude's quoting of this text should be God's seal of approval for those stronger in the faith to seek it out, read it, and in a way that is decisive, gain something from it. I don't know about you all, but to read passages that line up so well with the descriptions in Revelation regarding the Son of Man, the day of the Lord, the resurrection and judgement of sinners and the elect and so on, from a text that is dated to the 3rd century BC, does much to strengthen my own faith. That being said, again, there is an emphasis on decisive reading, bearing in mind that this text was not guided to be in the canon.
Take it with a grain of salt. Is it that important to our work as disciples to know for sure if demons are fallen angels, the disembodied spirits of the nephilim, or both? I don't think it really is, the bottom line is they are evil spirits who can tempt, torment and even possess the living. Where they came from is not important only where they are going. Is it that important whether or not there were angels known as the Watchers who came down and showed people secrets of Heaven and did everything the text says they did? Maybe, but what is more important is what the bible repeats, which is that there are angels that did not keep their places and are bound in chains in the abyss, and also the possibility, depending on how literal we understand Rev 9, that these shall be unleashed as part of God's plan of judgement. What WE need to focus on, is how to take up the armor of God and defend against these beings in Spirit and in Truth.
Friends, I believe I have made a grave error, which the Lord has convicted me of. Rather than edit my above post, I want to leave it because I think people can learn from what has happened here.
The main err I have made was this:
I do believe, however, that Jude's quoting of this text should be God's seal of approval for those stronger in the faith to seek it out
bad, bad, bad glasse.
Jude did not quote from the book of Enoch, nor does it ever say he did. It just says that Enoch said it, and I believe that much is true. This book of Enoch may be based on an oral tradition, another text, who knows. Whatever it is now is polluted and corrupt.
It speaks about the Son of Man and His coming on the Day of the Lord, and we have manuscripts now that can be dated to the 3rd century BC, so shouldn't this lend credibility to it? Last night I said yes, today I say no. Again, Enoch did say what Jude said, so it could be based on something true, such as an oral tradition, but what did our Lord say? A little bit of leaven spoils the whole loaf, and friends, there is leaven in this document. Satan is very cunning, and knows how to sell a lie. Half truths. Remember, also, when Satan was tempting our Lord, that he knew many things previously written about Him. Satan has been in the presence of God, and I am pretty sure he knew about Jesus in the 3rd century BC.
Here is an article I found which exposes this book in a bit more detail
http://www.christiancourier.com/articles/562-did-jude-quote-from-an-apoc...
Lastly, here is what have found that perhaps can lay to rest the question of validity regarding this pseudographical work once and for all. It is so obvious to the point of almost embarrassment once realized.
Hebrews 11:5 (New International Version)
5By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death; he could not be found, because God had taken him away. For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God.
It says right here, that Enoch was taken away, and could not be found. It doesn't say found by one person, or any person, it says could not be found. So since this is the case, how could we have gotten this text, supposedly written by him, detailing his journey through all the parts of heaven and meeting all the angels, if after he was taken he could not be found. Did an angel deliver it back for him? Just say that out loud to yourself once and see if it feels right at all.
Look, friends, I encourage you to do what I am going to as soon as I hit save. I am going to get my copy of the book of enoch, take it upstairs, and throw it in the trash. If I ever need to reference it for any reason it can be found in its entirety on the internet, but that would only be to help another believer see that it is bunk heresy.
Look, I write this to give you reason not to throw the book of Enoch in the trash. Those men who compile bible by the guidance of the Holy Ghost, could not be certain about the authenticity of the book, and also, could not clean it up whatever corruption it has because they themselves are not yet fully spiritual so that the Holy Ghost guide them as he went to clean it up completely, therefore what they do is, they take it out of the bible, but reserve it for those who want read it and get more knowledge about the spiritual realm. Here is the reason in my opinion;
1 Enoch says the son of man will sit on the right side of God which is exactly the bases Christian believe.
2 Jesus said the Holy Ghost will teach you (John14:26) so as john (1 John2:27) “But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth,” so if the Holy Ghost teach as and he filter to us, the truth from the corrupted one, we only need to believe in God and read and get more knowledge. The bible said (John 20:30)” there are other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: {20:31} But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.” which means generally, there are many things that are not mentioned in the bible about God and his creation but only those needed for us to believe and saved.
Lastly, let me tell you how one of the Enoch book help me. I have been wondering when water created? How could it be created before the first day? Even before God said “Let there be light:” this may be not big deal for many of us, because it is nothing to do with believe whatsoever, however even us, Christian, want to know more about God and his creation deeply sometime and answer for non believer when it is necessary .By the way, did you know, water is created even before the first day? If you don, t, don’t you want to know why? Here is the last question, if we trash those inherited books which have some truth, instead of asking the Holy Ghost to guide us, where would we get the information when we needed them?
Book of Enoch...
I have been wondering some of these same question. I appreciate all of the questions, thoughts and responses.
What I decided to do on all of the Septuagint, Apocrypha and books that are not in the Holy Bible ~ things I know nothing about ~ is throw out a fleece. I asked the Lord to let me know if these books like the book of Enoch were God inspired, God breathed books. I got nothing. Then I asked if there were any books that I needed to know about. He is beginning to reveal some to me. I am not convinced that I personally need to study them - yet.
If you are wondering, maybe you should ask God to reveal the truth to you and what He wants you to do about them. I believe we should study the Holy Bible and know what He is saying to us before we do anything else.
I don't think we need to get bogged down with other issues that take our focus off of Him. That's where we can go wrong.
One last thought - Jude says that Enoch prophesied not Enoch wrote. This does not convince me that there is a book written by him or about him.
May the Holy Spirit guide us all into what God has for us. And not forget it's about His Son Jesus Christ.